Thursday, August 27, 2009
The calvary is here!
I've been doing a lot of poking around on different Audi sites for information on the various swaps that these guys are doing. Many are putting the 20vt into older cars and dealing with wiring issues similar to mine. During my travels I have run across Mr. Paul Nugent who happens to host s2central.net and also created s2forum.com. He has agreed to help with the wiring concerns that I have and all should be sorted in short order. If I can develop a pdf file half as good as his, the wiring in this project will become a cake walk for anyone who follows the path I'm beating down. You should check out his sites. They are loaded with information and knowledgeable people to chat with.
Monday, August 24, 2009
Brief note
I am almost done with a spread sheet that will detail the electrical requirements of the engine. Stay tuned and I'll post it here first.
Wednesday, August 19, 2009
Wiring
Well I have had the wiring stretched out in the living room since last week. I'm sure the mess and the beeping of the multimeter are about to kill my wife. Looks like the harness is in really good shape. Everything checks out okay with no damage to any of the connectors. I've traced all of the ECU pins to their destinations and marked everything. If I'm looking at it right there are only a couple of wires that will require power, and a couple of grounds. The harness is pretty specific to just engine functions. I do have a couple of wires that I need to verify their function before I remove them. Also I want to keep the Vag-com port intact and functional, so I will have to figure that out before I post the final procedure on this part. Here is a picture of the harness laying on the floor.
Monday, August 17, 2009
Nothing much
I worked on the S6 this weekend. The engine is ready to come out save for the motor mounts. I have the wiring harness removed and labeled. I need to find info on what the engine requires to operate so I can remove the rest of the circuits. Other than that I don't have alot to report.
Friday, August 7, 2009
Bell housing trial fit
There has been some concern about whether or not my adapter plate is actually the correct one, so I took it and the bell housing out to the s6 for a little tinkering. Now keep in mind that this is not a confirmed "yes it works" post, but it looks really promising! First I tried to just slide the bell housing over the clutch and onto the motor. It didn't work. I had been told that it wouldn't but I just had to try, it's in my nature. It seemed to be hitting the starter gear teeth. I couldn't tell for sure laying under the car with a flashlight. Next I placed the adapter plate onto the engine and it cleared the ring gear with no problems. Putting the bell housing onto the adapter plate also seemed to clear with no problems. Woohoo! Just keep in mind that I was juggling two parts and a flashlight on my back before I left for work so I don't know if bolt holes were lining up, but it made me feel better.
Fuel pump solution
Finally I have come to a decision in this area. I know that somebody will say that this is overkill for this project, but I will have room to grow. After a lot of digging around on different sites and reading a lot of flow information I came up with the following. Keep in mind that as pressure rises in a fuel system that the flow rate of your pump will decrease. The inverse is also true. To make matters worse there is no standard that manufacturers use to test their pump output.
The stock Bosch replacement pump for a 944 is p/n 0 580 464 069. It is rated for 98 L/hr @ 4 bar.
The stock Bosch replacement pump for the S6 is p/n 0 580 31 068. It is rated for 120 L/hr @ 3 bar.
With the difference in tested pressure I would assume that these pumps are about equal in flow at the same pressure. That would be for a stock application.
Since my 944's pump is of an unknown age and I hope to eventually be at a level of about 400bhp I decided to err on the side of caution and replace it with Bosch p/n 0 580 254 044. This unit is rated for 200 L/hr @ 5 bar or approximately 270 L/hr @ 3 bar. It's currently very popular in cars making at least 500 bhp so I have every confidence that it will supply enough fuel for my needs. It is also almost a direct fit for the 944 application. Just for your information there are several other Bosch units that fall in between the 069 and 044 models, but to tell you the truth I got tired of trying to figure out how small is too small.
Side note: As far as just using the s6 pump on the 944 until I start raising power levels...well you can't. The s6 is in tank and the 944 is in line.
Another note: After writing this info I have continued to receive information from different people. They have informed me that there are a lot of people with modded 951's making 400-500hp that are using the stock pump. That may be true, but it makes me uneasy. That being the case I may rethink my decision on using the 044 and try to find out the part number for the Bosch HV pump. It has upgraded performance over the stock pump, but not as much as the 044. I could live with that.
There are three main reasons to not go too big when selecting a fuel pump.
1: A larger pump requires more power to operate. This is going to take hp to produce, plus your wiring may not be up to the task of the increased current requirements.
2: Something I was not aware of until researching this topic, but it makes sense. If you circulate way more fuel than you need it will begin to actually act like a cooling system and transfer heat from your engine bay into your fuel tank. That is not a good thing.
3: Oh and this one is important to everyone. A larger pump costs more.
Final thoughts:
Alright the mystery is solved. I'm now going to choose a different pump. This is the mysterious Bosch HV pump. I located someone who read the numbers off the box for me so that I could look up the flow rate and current draw. Supposedly it is good for 450 rwhp sustained. That certainly will supply what I need without getting overly large. Here is the number break down on the three models for this car.
0 580 464 069 - 98 L/hr @ 4 bars - max 7 amp draw - stock replacement
0 580 254 910 - 130L/hr @ 5 bars - max 10 amp draw - this is the HV
0 580 254 044 - 200L/hr @ 5 bars - max 15.5 amp draw - this is the 044
On to the next problem.
The stock Bosch replacement pump for a 944 is p/n 0 580 464 069. It is rated for 98 L/hr @ 4 bar.
The stock Bosch replacement pump for the S6 is p/n 0 580 31 068. It is rated for 120 L/hr @ 3 bar.
With the difference in tested pressure I would assume that these pumps are about equal in flow at the same pressure. That would be for a stock application.
Since my 944's pump is of an unknown age and I hope to eventually be at a level of about 400bhp I decided to err on the side of caution and replace it with Bosch p/n 0 580 254 044. This unit is rated for 200 L/hr @ 5 bar or approximately 270 L/hr @ 3 bar. It's currently very popular in cars making at least 500 bhp so I have every confidence that it will supply enough fuel for my needs. It is also almost a direct fit for the 944 application. Just for your information there are several other Bosch units that fall in between the 069 and 044 models, but to tell you the truth I got tired of trying to figure out how small is too small.
Side note: As far as just using the s6 pump on the 944 until I start raising power levels...well you can't. The s6 is in tank and the 944 is in line.
Another note: After writing this info I have continued to receive information from different people. They have informed me that there are a lot of people with modded 951's making 400-500hp that are using the stock pump. That may be true, but it makes me uneasy. That being the case I may rethink my decision on using the 044 and try to find out the part number for the Bosch HV pump. It has upgraded performance over the stock pump, but not as much as the 044. I could live with that.
There are three main reasons to not go too big when selecting a fuel pump.
1: A larger pump requires more power to operate. This is going to take hp to produce, plus your wiring may not be up to the task of the increased current requirements.
2: Something I was not aware of until researching this topic, but it makes sense. If you circulate way more fuel than you need it will begin to actually act like a cooling system and transfer heat from your engine bay into your fuel tank. That is not a good thing.
3: Oh and this one is important to everyone. A larger pump costs more.
Final thoughts:
Alright the mystery is solved. I'm now going to choose a different pump. This is the mysterious Bosch HV pump. I located someone who read the numbers off the box for me so that I could look up the flow rate and current draw. Supposedly it is good for 450 rwhp sustained. That certainly will supply what I need without getting overly large. Here is the number break down on the three models for this car.
0 580 464 069 - 98 L/hr @ 4 bars - max 7 amp draw - stock replacement
0 580 254 910 - 130L/hr @ 5 bars - max 10 amp draw - this is the HV
0 580 254 044 - 200L/hr @ 5 bars - max 15.5 amp draw - this is the 044
On to the next problem.
Monday, August 3, 2009
Monday morning
Well I haven't done a single thing to the swap project over the last weekend, but I did get one of the home improvement projects done. One more to go and I can get started on the swap. I got a hold of an Audi service manual late last week. It looks to cover just about the whole car, so I hope it will allow me to make sense out of the wiring harness. I also picked up an HD camcorder to use for documentation of the swap. Hopefully in the next couple of weeks we will be able to get Nina to a dyno that is here in town and find out what she is good for in the stock configuration. I figure that will be a fun comparison to the finished project. I also found that Sokol (the Ukrainian guy with 20vt swapped 924) is using a walbro 255 liters/hr fuel pump in his car. I'll compare that to the S6 pumps flow rates to see how it stacks up.
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